Adderall is a 3:1 dextroamphetamine/levoamphetamine mix.
Methamphetamine is a whole other level of stimulant.
> amphetamine habits in kids that have trouble focusing in school.
1) Do you have evidence that Adderall at therapeutic dosages is anywhere near as addictive as methamphetamine at recreational dosages?
2) Yeah, ADHD makes it real hard to focus at school. I never graduated from high school, and I dropped out of university as an adult student without even completing one year, thanks to untreated ADHD. Not to mention the impulsive behaviour, the inability to stick at boring things etc. etc. It's not great in our society.
You're implicitly minimising the very real impact of ADHD, that's not super great.
In fact, one of the biggest issues for people finally being treated for ADHD as adults is the grieving process around "What my life could've been if my parents hadn't believed that ADHD wasn't real and my issues in school and my 'disruptiveness' was solely due to 'food intolerances', because my Mom read a magazine article about it once, then paid a quack to stick a probe in my ear, one on my finger, and then rub food on my skin while looking at a galvanometer making 'hmmm' noises sagely."
3) You know there's been Adderall shortages in the USA recently due to DEA manufacturing limitations right? So it's not like they're just throwing out to kids like it's a lolly scramble.
Anyway, it's about as ironic as 10,000 spoons when all you need a knife. That is, not at all.
> Methamphetamine is a whole other level of stimulant.
The extra methyl group that differentiates it from regular amphetamine salts mainly serves the purpose of crossing the blood-brain barrier quicker. However, during this process it loses that extra methyl group. So whether you're taking meth or adderal, the chemical that actually reaches your brain is ultimately the same
In fact, methamphetamine is available as a prescription ADHD medicine under the brand name "Desoxyn"
I thought that (1) meth (e.g. methylphenidate a.k.a. ritalin) blocks reuptake of dopamine, and (2) amphetamine (e.g. dextroamphetamine) stimulates production of dopamine, and (3) methamphetamine (a.k.a. desoxyn) does both. Is that understanding accurate?
“Meth” is methamphetamine, not methylphenidate. Ritalin isn’t the same thing as Meth. Not sure about how Ritalin vs Adderall act different on dopamine.
~~Pharmacists have no ability* to not dispense medicines if a doctor prescribes them.~~
_Edit: I am told I'm wrong on this front, and I stand corrected_
The fact that doctors are prescribing them too freely is definitely worth looking into.
But severely restricting medication that is used to effectively treat disease because it has abuse potential only harms legitimate users. But definitely worth auditing prescriptions to ensure that they're being issued for valid diagnoses.
But as for illegitimate users? You ban it, they'll find something else.
And as someone who needs ADHD meds to do things like "remember I have a todo list, remember where I left it, and remember to use it", I very much resent the people who abuse the meds I need to function in our society to pass their law degrees easier.
I resent the meth addicts who try to get an ADHD diagnosis for their kids so they can abuse (or sell...) their children's ADHD meds when they can't afford meth, because it means I have to pee into a jar every three months to prove I'm not a meth addict who is abusing methylphenidate.
(My country uses methylphenidate / Ritalin / Concerta (the slow release form) as the first treatment for ADHD, Adderall is not prescribed here that much, if ever, but it is possible to be prescribed dexamphetamine if you're bad enough).
But I really do object to glibly implying that every child who is prescribed a treatment for ADHD is actually a case of pharmacists gleefully overmedicating, it's naïve, unsympathetic, and, tbh, rather unfair to pharmacists.
As for what schedule a drug is... ...is the harm of Adderall abuse the same as the harm of fentanyl abuse?
Drug schedules aren't a good way to determine harm, IMO. They're a good way to discern moral panics though.
E.g., in my country, Class A, the drugs that attract the highest penalties, include magic mushrooms, mescaline, DMT, and that one you get from licking toads, bufotentine or something, alongside classics like heroin and cocaine.
Fentanyl is Class B, alongside opium, morphine, amphetamine, methylphenidate, MDMA, and one that always amuses me, hashish.
* There's probably some dumb-ass rules around declining to dispense abortifacients because of religious beliefs, I'm sure.
> I very much resent the people who abuse the meds I need to function ... I resent the meth addicts ... it means I have to pee into a jar every three months to prove I'm not a meth addict who is abusing methylphenidate.
It's important to remember that no addict did this to you. An addict doesn't force Kaiser to charge me $20 when they demand I piss in a cup in order to receive my legally prescribed medication. It's fucking Kaiser, and the DEA, and the mad cap conservative politicians and their shitty fucking values. Drug addicts are suffering from a health problem, just like you and I are with our ADHD. None of us have the power to influence the massive engine of carceral drug policy and the promotion of mass moral panic about people taking medication that helps them.
It's important to point the anger at the right people.
Using telemedicine in New Hampshire, I don't have to take any drug tests for mine, just self-report my blood pressure and pulse on zoom every 3 months.
> Pharmacists have no ability* to not dispense medicines if a doctor prescribes them.
This is not true. Pharmacists have the right to not fill a prescription for a number of reasons, and in fact can be held liable for not doing so.
If they feel the use of the drug is medically inappropriate they can decide not to fill it. If they feel the patient is taking it for a non-medical reason (abuse) they can choose not to fill it.
Pharmacists are medical professionals who are expected to use their judgement to make sure medicines are not used inappropriately.
> ~~Pharmacists have no ability* to not dispense medicines if a doctor prescribes them.~~
As others said, it's not true. Pharmacists are also trained to spot any possible adverse drug interactions with other medications that you might be taking.
It more often happens in the clinical setting, rather than at retail pharmacies, but it still is a possibility.
> I think the parent post is more likely alluding to the abuse of the medication, particularly in higher learning institutions.
It's kind of weird that people are calling this "abuse" when it's apparently using the drug in the same context and dosage as it's prescribed therapeutically, plausibly by people who actually have ADHD but don't have the time or insurance to get a prescription.
It's an interesting case study in what would happen if it was more widely available in a pharmaceutical form with a known dose and purity. What percentage of these college students are actually getting addicted to amphetamine vs. just taking a therapeutic dose here and there?
Damn, if Schedule II drugs are that bad, Schedule I drugs must be terrible. Let me go see:
> Some examples of Schedule I drugs are: lysergic acid diethylamide (LSD), marijuana (cannabis)
Oh damn, marijuana is worse than this drug? I hope they arrest anyone selling marijuana. What’s that you say? Legal? In California? Oh, in lots of states?
Schedule I "merely" means:
The drug or other substance has a high potential for abuse.
The drug or other substance has no currently accepted medical use in treatment in the United States.
There is a lack of accepted safety for use of the drug or other substance under medical supervision.
Methamphetamine is a whole other level of stimulant.
> amphetamine habits in kids that have trouble focusing in school.
1) Do you have evidence that Adderall at therapeutic dosages is anywhere near as addictive as methamphetamine at recreational dosages?
2) Yeah, ADHD makes it real hard to focus at school. I never graduated from high school, and I dropped out of university as an adult student without even completing one year, thanks to untreated ADHD. Not to mention the impulsive behaviour, the inability to stick at boring things etc. etc. It's not great in our society.
You're implicitly minimising the very real impact of ADHD, that's not super great.
In fact, one of the biggest issues for people finally being treated for ADHD as adults is the grieving process around "What my life could've been if my parents hadn't believed that ADHD wasn't real and my issues in school and my 'disruptiveness' was solely due to 'food intolerances', because my Mom read a magazine article about it once, then paid a quack to stick a probe in my ear, one on my finger, and then rub food on my skin while looking at a galvanometer making 'hmmm' noises sagely."
3) You know there's been Adderall shortages in the USA recently due to DEA manufacturing limitations right? So it's not like they're just throwing out to kids like it's a lolly scramble.
Anyway, it's about as ironic as 10,000 spoons when all you need a knife. That is, not at all.